Maureen Dowd on 'Claudius' Trump, Whitmer's Hamartia & Clooney's Ambitions

Plus: Why Trump went dark...

No one says it quite like Maureen Dowd, so it was a special treat to have her on my show. I’ve long admired her for bringing the powerful—typically men—to their knees with just a turn of phrase. Dowd is such a keen observer of character and has an incredible way of peering into the human psyche. That’s precisely what she does in her new book Notorious, a collection of profiles on people with power and how they use it, which includes everyone from Elon Musk to Jane Fonda to Peter Thiel and Uma Thurman. Stick around until the end of the interview where she uses lines from her favorite authors Jane Austen and Shakespeare to describe some of the presidents she’s covered, including references to the mad King Claudius and the old King Lear. For those who prefer audio, take a listen here.

Here are some gems in the episode:

• When Musk showed up to a poker game at Thiel’s house and bet everything on every hand: “Afterwards, Peter goes, ‘What were you doing?’ and Elon says, ‘Well, I don't know how to play poker.’ And that reminds me a lot of DOGE in Washington.”

• On Gretchen Whitmer in the Oval Office with the folder over her face: “I had thought Gretchen Whitmer and Josh Shapiro would be a very strong ticket, that image I think will haunt her the way Elon with the chainsaw will haunt him.”

• How after interviewing George Clooney, she came to believe that he may want to run for president in 2028: “The interview lasted five hours, so finally I'm like, well, would you want to run for president? And he said ‘no,’ but he didn't say it that convincingly.”

• What Trump told her about why he went dark and never went back. “He actually thought about it and said ‘It got me to